:Wyatt…and Khatas by Kathy

 Running just about on empty, as well as that ever present out-of-time lately, this post is brief and to the point. Two people stopped by the shop yesterday.

Kathy dropped off beautiful khatas she knitted. These will be for sale/donation at Saturday night’s A Gathering of the Tibetans. They are soooooo soft, packaged beautifully with Kathy’s special touch.  

Pete stopped by with a Wyatt report. He’s doing fine. Andy, however, has yet to show much interest in Wyatt. In fact, he shows disdain. I quickly directed Pete to the blog, but am requesting help from all of you. Please share your own stories of integrating another dog by ‘commenting’ on this blog entry. If anyone knows of good resources – books, articles – that address this topic, please ‘comment’ on those as well. Pete says Wyatt is a great dog. His concerns are Andy, Andy’s current dislike of Wyatt and that Pete, himself, is getting very attached to Wyatt. Wyatt, like all our adult dogs, is on a 2-week trial period. Although the main reason Pete sought another dog was as a companion for Andy, Pete wants this to work because he really likes Wyatt. He’s worried after the 2-week trial that he won’t want to part with Wyatt, but Andy will be miserable with the new addition.

I’ll call Pete today and tell him about this blog entry. Between all of us there’s a wealth of experience and dog knowledge. Unfortunately, many of us will be away from this means of communication for the next few days. I’m hoping the rest of you can fill in, giving Pete tips and sharing your own stories of dog integration.

19 Comments on “:Wyatt…and Khatas by Kathy”

  1. Susan M says:

    Kathy…..do you need/want more scarves???? I love to knit, but I don’t need a single thing that I might knit for myself. I’ve got two half-finished projects sitting around, and a bureau full of yarns. Want a deputy knitter? Let me know what the patterns and plans and deadlines are. It’s gonna be knitting season real soon….

    As to Wyatt and Andy, my suspicions when I got my second dog were (and still are) that Rinchen (the first) was appalled that I didn’t think he was enough for me. He has always been a bit disdainful of Sammy who would just love to be his best friend but still isn’t after all these (3?) years. They get along just okay, but Rinchen always wants to play with me, while Sammy would just love Rinchen to play with him. When I got the third dog (Raji), everything actually got smoother; my theory about that is/was that the triangle took pressure off of any particular bonds or lack thereof between the two.
    I’d still have more than one dog, but it isn’t clear to me that first dogs don’t actually want to continue to be your one and only object of affection….
    My measly two cents.

  2. First of all, I’d give it longer than two weeks. Our rescue policy is 30 days for a “return.” Second, as Susan pointed out, they may not be ‘best buddies’ but still able to co-exist in harmony. Third, Pete needs to carve out individual time for Andy. Put Wyatt in his crate and spend quality time with just Andy doing special activities … go for a walk or play with a favorite toy w/out interference from Wyatt.

    If Andy is just ignoring Wyatt and/or letting him know not to get too close, I’d give it more time. He needs time to adjust to the “new normal” … and that may not be on our schedule.

  3. Rose says:

    Hey Pete – I’ve always had just 1 and when I brought Tango to NY back in April, the plan was for him to live nearby with my parents…and visit and be best friends with Willis. Plans changed. Willis liked Tango (and all dogs his size or smaller) as long as they were outside his house. Inside, Willis moped and I felt bad. I was afraid the addition was going to change his personality and cute little habits. Not having kids, I didn’t understand my neighbors comment, “they’re like kids, when you bring the 2nd baby home, they like it but once they figure its there to stay, another story. Too bad, she said, they adjust. Now 5 months later, it’s the best thing I could have done. Things to do – spend more time outdoors in neutral turf. For sleeping, I took Deb’s advise (Tango in the crate in the same room, Willis the bed.) I did allow Tango ½ hr or so on the bed before crating him. After 2 wks or so, I stopped locking the crate and he would jump down and put himself to bed. Now, Willis has his spot and Tango is up and down and back again. Oh, I never give them special “chewy” or rawhide treats individually; it has prompted real fights. Instead, I just put the new goodies in the 2 little beds which are just filled with their toys, balls and now chewies. They take what they want. New game, one chews on something for a while and happens to throw it off the bed. The other one jumps down to see what it was, grabs it and at the same time loses his spot and bone. But, everyone is happy. Leaving them home alone while I worked was another initial worry – first I tried separating them because I was afraid of a fight and because Tango wasn’t really housetrained. Well, Tango was a jumper and no gate would curtail him; he ended up with free run while Willis was curtailed. I really did not want to crate him (too mean, all day, not the way to go); anyways after a week or so, they both stayed in the kitchen and I even found them sharing the same rug while waiting for me. It does work out. Better to have a friend than to be alone. I always make sure Willis is called first, then Tango. When they go for a walk, Willis is always unleashed first when we come back in. They both get their special time—they get their special pickup with hugs and talked too. Willis always takes the front seat in the car, Tango stays in the back (smartie, it really is much more comfortable!) Somehow I maneuvered Willis into being the Big Brother he is and Tango loves following his lead (or at least letting him think he is in charge). So, give Andy and Wyatt some time to figure things out. I’m sure Wyatt is thrilled to have found a “real home” and he will also give Andy the time to adjust to having to share. I’d bet they become friends behind your back while you’re not looking. I could go on, and on….hope this helps.

  4. >>> (too mean, all day, not the way to go)

    Crataing is not “mean” … used properly, it is a beneficial tool in addition to keeping dogs safe. Dogs have a natural denning instinct in the wild and this transfers to the crate. With rare exception, most dogs love their crates and view it as their very own safe place. An added benefit: dogs who are crate trained are much more comfortable when left at the vet’s office or with a groomer. You leave, what’s the first thing that happens? They put the dog in a crate. A dog familiar with crate isn’t going to stress out as much as one not familiar with a crate.

    Another thing to consider. Dogs sleep 18 hours a day and adjust their wake time to when the family is home. Which means they’re sleeping when home along during the day … whether in a crate or not.

  5. Almost forgot … in these days of frequent evacuations, some facilities are open to dogs but *only* in a crate. Ask Debby about dogs, crates and evacuations!

  6. Pete, I brought my 2nd Lhasa, Roman,(FFT Veni Vedi Vici) into our home almost 4 years ago. Taz was 8-9, had a temperment issues along with health issues. I’d had “training issues” and those were resolving. Taz is old style Lhasa with lots of pride, territory protectiveness, with people and dogs. Roman, totally different personality, great with any person, clownish and always happy, some territory issues with dogs. The first few weeks were rough. First issue was leader of the pack. Walking through a doorway, Roman ahead, Taz bit him pretty good on the face. Devastating for me. Dogs get over it easily. So lots of reading, (Patricia McConnell) training tips from my reward based/clicker trainer. Dogs need a leader of the pack, that should be you. There needs to be an alpha, probably your older Lhasa, Wyatt is second. The alpha always gets fed first, treatd first, first to go through the door until the bond starts to form. At least that worked for me. My 2 dogs get fed at the same time, different spots in the kitchen, taz gets his first, then Roman, feeling more secure in his crate, eats in his crate. (No tables in my kitchen, just huge dog crates.) A table is for the cats to eat on. IF there is a confrontation, break it up with strong verbal commands, clapping, and don’t dwell on who started it. There is a body language that goes with establishing the alpha. The look, the turn of the head, hovering over the neck, sometimes leads to mounting, to establish dominance. Usually the submissive will “bare the neck” or roll over to the alpha. My Roman is always challenging the alpha spot, Taz isn’t ready to give up the “Senior Lhasa” role yet, and chases Roman to say, back off. Someday, I’m told it will reverse, as Taz becomes frail with age. I never left the 2 alone, free in the house for about a year. I also believe crates are dens, my dogs love their crates. I only do chew toys, kongs, in the crates. Roman touched Taz’s toy ONCE…now he lets Taz pick first, takes his, and Runs looking over his shoulder. The two play, chase, defend our property together now. They sleep side by side. There is always a “space” issue with Taz, Roman is warned if he gets too close. I do separate things with each, and then we go together for things also. Old Taz will hop the seat to lay next to Roman. The only time Taz has let Roman assume the lead was with a wood chuck at the fence. Either senior wisdom, or fear, said go ahead, take the lead. Roman is fearless. So long story, but hang in there, the bond will grow. Give each their separate time, gradually work in the togetherness. Your older one ignoring may be jealous, or a way of establishing that alpha role. I know Ella, I think a litter mate of Wyatt’s, happy, loving personality, so I be Wyatt, probably similar, will hang in there, learn his role. It’s a reward worth being patient for. Hope this is inspirational to keep working on the bond. And..my Taz, lets Roman walk through the door first now. Mary, Roman, Taz

  7. Judy Gregurich says:

    Pete, It’s all about relationships. You and Andy have spent quality time together, and now there is another dog. I had Odie for 5 years and thought he would love some companionship. What was I thinking? He pouted and growled and ignored Izzy. Bonding takes time and your energy to be the alpha. Spend special time with Andy first then Wyatt. They may never be the companions you thought they might be together, but they are both your companions. Each relationship will be as different as their personalities, but slowly you will become a family of three.
    Judy, Odie and Izzy

  8. Katy says:

    These wise Apso people have all given excellent advice. I have Sadie, Wyatt’s mom. She came to us almost a year ago at age 2.5 to be a companion to our Zeke, then age 1. Sadie is half Zeke’s size, but she is now in charge over Zeke. Took about 6 months for them to work it out, and as far as I can tell, Zeke has never really seriously challenged her. They had/have a few fights, and I intervene verbally, which is all it takes. Zeke is almost always on the defense, but he still “mounts” her occasionally, in a dominance gesture. She gives it right back to him, though. Sadie sometimes has a “hair trigger”, it seems to me, but then, I probably missed something going on between them. Zeke rolls over and shows submission, then gives her a playbow, and off they go – the Zeke and Sadie Show is on again!
    I finally gave them the run of the house when we are gone about 4-5 months ago, after keeping them confined for about 6-7 months. They have earned it. And they are pretty much best friends, sleep together, “hunt” together, poke around together. they both now sleep on the bed, and change spots constantly. they each have two crates that they either eat in or use as dens during the day, to nap or just a calm place to be. I feed them in separate places in the kitchen. Sadie defends whatever space she’s in, sometimes, and Zeke respects that. Other times, Zeke plops down right beside her and she’s OK with that. I am both their “primary person”; Sadie just seems to adore me and wants me to do everything with her, so I try and give equal time to both. I am still careful with treats or bones, as that has sparked intense but short fights in the past. They have very different personalities, and Sadie is as sweet, silly and cute as they come. But she is tough, too, and since they are so close in age, I think that she is always going to be the boss.
    We have had her almost a year now, and I have watched their relationship evolve over that time, and also our relationship with her, and with them both, together. Having the two is a double blessing, for us all. It’s well worth whatever learning curve there is, for all involved.
    Apsos are very “undomesicated” in many ways. They may be small in stature, but mighty in heart, as you well know by now. With you as Alpha, they will work out their pack order in time and all will be well! To see them both head out, down the walk, shoulder to shoulder, is wonderful!

  9. Pete Anderson says:

    I hope my decision won’t make me a pariah in the Lahasa lovers community but after anguishing over it almost constantly I have returned Wyatt to Debbie. I of course will never know now if Andy (Ansil) might have eventually accepted Wyatt, but seeing him in such a constant withdrawn, unhappy state just became too much. And I felt if I kept Wyatt any longer and we bonded any further I would be in an impossible situation.
    Andy and I have been almost 7/24 companions since I got him and in the end I felt I owed him retaining our exclusive one on one relationship that he’s grown so accustomed to over the years.
    I do want to thank each of you who took the time to offer your advice, suggestions and encouragement. Most of the techniques you recommended I had employed or incorporated into the effort, and I grateful for each of them.
    I told Debbie it would do my heart good if there was anyway I could help in seeing Wyatt into a great permanent home. He is an absolutely delightful little guy. So, if any of you know of or become aware of the perfect home for him, but one where perhaps the initial cost might be an issue, I would be happy to offset that to whatever extent necessary so that wouldn’t be an issue.
    Thanks again for your kind and thoughtful comments.
    Pete and Andy

  10. Susan M says:

    Hi Pete, Susan here.
    I want to assure you that I, for one, am sorry and sad but not even slightly critical of your decision. It’s a personal journey, and you get to make it in the way that is right for you and for Andy. There’s no question that there is a change when you add another dog, and sometimes that change is too far out of line with the relationship that you have chosen for your family. Andy is your family; you get to choose what works for you.
    Look at it this way: someone is still waiting for Wyatt.

  11. Katy Widger says:

    Well, I guess that someone is us. Ken and I, and Zeke and Sadie, have decided that we’d like for Wyatt to come and live with us down here on the “farm”, in New Mexico! He’s Sadie’s son, after all. And Zeke is always ready to make new friends. And we already have a large family of critters, so he’ll just be one more special little bed warmer around here. I’ll bet he’ll love it as much as Zeke and Sadie do!
    So, Andy, please don’t worry about your decision.
    Ditto what Susan said. I have every confidence that Wyatt will be a part of the pack in no time! We’re driving up to Co. Springs this Saturday to meet Debby at the same dog park where we introduced Zeke and Sadie last year. We’ll let the dogs sort it out for a while, and go from there!

  12. Susan M says:

    Oh, Katy, bless your little critter-filled heart !!!!!
    I can’t wait to see pictures and hear the stories of Wyatt with the rest of your pack.
    You are now (again) officially my hero (heroine?)…


  13. Susan M says:

    Ooops….BIG critter-filled heart….

  14. Kathy says:

    Katy & Ken,
    You are fantastic apso parents!! I honestly wasn’t joking when I offered to bring you something special from Colorado!! Bless you!! Let the Zeke and Sadie and Wyatt show begin!!

  15. Rose says:

    Katy & Ken — This is just too good! Am so happy for little Wyatt, he will love it, how could he not. You both are Special!

  16. Katy, great for you, and your dogs. I’m a bit jealous; I thought a bit about Wyatt but my house of 5 pets is all I can do now. Does Wyatt get his own goat? I think of the great photo of Zeke hugging the goat. Look forward to seeing photos of all 3. Mary, Roman, Taz

  17. Katy says:

    We are all very tickled about Wyatt coming to complete our pack! Sadie, especially, seems to genuinely understand and is eager and pleased.
    Zeke is starting to get the idea, since we bought a crate and a leash for Wyatt today, and set it up in the bedroom next to their’s.
    Wyatt will definitely get his own goat! Zeke and Sadie both eagerly wait every morning for their “splash” of warm, fresh goat milk, and seem to be appreciative of their goat friends for providing it!
    We’re very confident that Wyatt will do well here, and in fact, belongs here with us.
    Never a dull moment!
    Thank you all for the good wishes!
    Katy, Ken, Zeke and Sadie

  18. Congrats on the new pack member, Katy. Wyatt is a delightful little guy and we can’t wait to hear of his NM adventures!

    Pete, at some point in the hopefully distant future (when Andy has passed), you’ll just have to sign up for “two fers” …

  19. Pete says:

    OH WOW! I’m just elated over the news of Wyatt’s wonderful new forever home. Thank you Katy and Ken. I hope I have the opportunity to personally meet and thank you sometime. Bless you. Please give Wyatt a big hug for me. I’ll be watching for future news.
    Pete and Andy

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